Interview – Numéro Berlin https://www.numeroberlin.de Fri, 14 Feb 2025 10:35:39 +0000 en-US hourly 1 #ZUKUNFT: IN CONVERSATION WITH COOKING SECTIONS https://www.numeroberlin.de/2025/02/zukunft-in-conversation-with-cooking-sections/ Fri, 14 Feb 2025 09:22:14 +0000 https://www.numeroberlin.de/?p=57587

Artist duo Cooking Sections’ work combines art and activism, using food as a gateway to explore the social, cultural and political drivers of the climate crisis. Founded in 2012 by Daniel Fernández Pascual and Alon Schwabe, Cooking Sections incorporates design, architecture and community work to create works that defy simple categorization. In their multi-site project CLIMAVORE, they examine how climate change has eliminated traditional seasons, instead identifying the new ‘seasons’ of the climate crises: periods of drought, oceanic pollution and soil depletion. Yet their work also explores potential solutions, looking at how we can create adaptive and regenerative forms of food production. Thus, rather than just working with temporary installations, their practice actively seeks to create frameworks that can be continued in a local context after an exhibition is over. This incorporated solution aspect offers a much-needed glimmer of optimism in a struggle where many of us can find ourselves feeling powerless. Their work is not about the individual choices we make, but about facing the structural issues that are accelerating the climate emergency, and encourage us to demand change by those in power.

Johanne Björklund Larsen: The term ‘climavore’ frequently appears in your practice. Could you tell me a bit more about it?

Cooking Sections: It’s a term we coined in 2015 to think of different systems and how to use food to understand them. We use food to understand those systems and how they are adapting to the new seasons of the climate crisis. It starts from the idea that the seasons that we grew up with have become or are becoming more and more obsolete. For example, when you go to the supermarket, you find pretty much anything all year round because of these standardized and intensive ways of producing food. So we started thinking about what it would mean to eat according to the new seasons that are being generated by humans because of the industrialization of the world. Like a season of drought or a season of polluted oceans or a season of flash floods. And that’s when we started thinking of these possible ingredients, variations that on the one hand are becoming more common in places they were not before, but at the same time also possible scenarios we can imagine to address them.

“Too often, the responsibility of a malfunctioning of a system is put on people’s individual habits instead of thinking more systemically.”
JBL: It’s a common saying that food brings people together. What do you think is the power that food holds?

CS: Well, I think for us, more than the convivial aspect – which is also important for us – it is more about how to think of food as an infrastructure, especially thinking about systemic change at the levels of governance as well as policy-making and how to bring different allies into these struggles towards food justice. And to do that, we like to operate at different levels. Of course, people get together to eat and it’s very important. But even if that sometimes becomes part of our work, the focus is more on infrastructural change that doesn’t stay at the level of the individual. Too often, the responsibility of a malfunctioning of a system is put on people’s individual habits instead of thinking more systemically. For example, why are food corporations allowed to use certain pesticides and then make people pay three times more in the supermarket for food that doesn’t have those chemicals or poison? We want to put more emphasis on those layers, not only on the conviviality of people getting together and eating nice food.

JBL: Food inhabits this interesting duality. It is something we all engage with and for most of us, it has strong emotional connections. Yet, at the same time, it is also an extremely polarized subject. What do you think of this connection between the two? And do you think that this duality is why it’s such an effective platform for discussing these issues?

CS: It has also been made polarized, right? People grew up with it for centuries and it was something very embedded in everyday life. But because of the industrialization of food, especially after the Second World War, more and more people have become disconnected from food and food has become more disconnected from landscapes and the natural seasons because of different so-called technological modernizations. But that has also created a whole series of problems. And that’s where we think this divide appeared. It has become really politicized and, actually, should be even more politicized because it’s a real struggle. Food production is now driven by corporate profit, like many other extractive industries in the world. There is that gap that needs to be bridged. And it’s not easy.

JBL: Another thing I think is really interesting with your work, is that you bring up issues that a lot of people might not at first think of as food-related, such as decreasing fertility rates. Why do you think art is an effective tool for highlighting these connections?

CS: For us, it’s important to use cultural platforms to, on the one hand, raise awareness about these connections, while it is also very important to imagine a new, possible future. We need to start thinking about how we can end some of these extractive practices or toxic ways of farming. And to do that, we need to imagine better worlds. Which is what we try to do in our work, to pick some of these cases or stories from our research and then amplify them. For instance, one particular case is the whole body of work around farmed salmon and the synthetic colors that are used to pigment the flesh of the fish. The fish are grown in intensive farms underwater and because of deficiencies in their industrialized diet, their flesh doesn’t turn pink, the way people expect them to look. So, artificial coloring is used to compensate for it. In this particular case, we use the illusion of color to expose and reveal how the production of farmed fish creates serious new problems. It is not just an aesthetic problem in terms of color, but that fake color that is illustrative of the problem with the entire system.

“In order to make food affordable and to feed the world, some of these very intensive and toxic practices have been heavily subsidized by governments without thinking of the long-term future of the soil or the long-term future of our bodies.”
JBL: With the increase of industrialized food production, we have also somehow moved ourselves further and further away from nature and the climate, leading us to the current toxic spiral we are finding ourselves in. Do you think using food is an effective way of reconnecting with nature?

CS: Definitely. But we first need to understand that we’ve been forced to disconnect. Because people were not disconnected that long ago. We need to think of the externalities. In order to make food affordable and to feed the world, some of these very intensive and toxic practices have been heavily subsidized by governments without thinking of the long-term future of the soil or the long-term future of our bodies. [Our bodies] are becoming increasingly infertile because of exposure to some of the pesticides that are used in to lower the costs of the production of food. So, at what cost does cheap food actually come, at what cost to the environment, at what cost to our bodies? At the moment, cheap food is cheap because of these subsidies to corporate profit-oriented enterprises, but also because it doesn’t take into account the long-term effects and who is doing what with those externalities. If you were to include the price of cleaning the waterways from pesticides, would it be that cheap then? The problem is that those costs are not included in the price of food. For us, it’s about making these connections visible. It’s not people deciding to disconnect from food, it is enterprises that have been severing those connections.

JBL: Do you see any positive changes on a broader scale, food and agricultural-wise?

CS: Yes, of course. There are a lot of farmers that are doing incredible work in many parts of the world, who try to resist those corporate structures and still take care of the land and the soil for future generations. And there’s a lot of initiatives. I think the problem sometimes is that they feel that society demands a lot from them in terms of ecology, but no one is really supporting them in the way that some of these more industrialized food production systems are subsidized. So, on the one hand, they have to bear the risks of failure because sometimes the weather doesn’t help, especially if you don’t use chemicals to mitigate. And, on the other hand, it’s a social responsibility they feel that people demand from them. That is a huge psychological load to carry. There needs to be more support for long-term visions and for food production that takes care of both humans and the soil.

JBL: What do you think would be ways of supporting farmers like this, both on a bigger scale and on a more personal level?

CS: Demanding more infrastructural change. Governments should support, for instance, open source seeds without copyright or patents by multinational corporations so that farmers don’t need to pay for seeds that are climate resilient. We need to have open source seeds for farmers so they can decide on their future and what they want to grow without paying because that’s how humanity has always been. Another infrastructural change we need to demand from government: Think of when we go to the supermarket. We are put in a personal quandary and a financial bind, where we have to choose if we want to pay three times more not to be poisoned, instead of the government just banning these pesticides from the start. These kinds of choices are then up to people’s habits and the information they have instead of governments and corporations taking the responsibility.

JBL: It’s horrible because it becomes a class question if you can afford to not poison yourself.

CS: Exactly.

JBL: Your work lies in the intersection of art, food and agriculture. It’s a combination that is not very common. Why do you think that is?

CS: It’s hard to say… We just believe in the work we are interested in and it doesn’t have to do with being more or less common. We love allies. We’d like to have more allies and people do it more at work. But yeah, there are many issues in the world and each one focuses inwards.

JBL: What do you think the food of the future will look and taste like?

CS: We’ve been working a lot within the climate framework and thinking about the future seasons. For instance, in a season of drought and there is a lack of water or water scarcity, let’s think of more drought-resistant crops. Or if there is a season of soil exhaustion because so many chemicals have been applied that the soil is dead, what kinds of rotation of crops can nourish the soil in the same way that we nourish our bodies? These are the kinds of ingredients we try to find, but we also look at ways of growing them that support ecological systems, not just addressing the ingredients themselves.

JBL: What are some examples of these ingredients and food that you see becoming more common in the future?

CS: We need to familiarize ourselves with the local plants that are available. For example, in the south of Italy, there are all of these wild plants, nut trees and varieties of vegetables that don’t require irrigation. So, on the one hand, familiarize ourselves with them, and then create a demand.

JBL: Are there any useful or environmentally friendly ingredients that most of us are not aware of that you think should get more attention?

CS: Again, that depends on where you live and where you are. For example, on the Isle of Skye in Scotland, where we did the project on farmed salmon, we’ve been working a lot with alternative aquaculture, mainly oysters, mussels and seaweeds that contribute to oxygenated water as they grow. Seaweed, for instance, is an ingredient that in Scotland had been used for generations but has been forgotten, especially since industrialized food production started after the Second World War. We look at how to recover some of these cultural legacies for the sake of history, but also as foods for the future. They are incredible sources of protein and many other compounds that our bodies need, but have been disregarded. So, it is crucial to reconnect with these ingredients, but it all depends on where you live and what the main issue at stake is. For example, if you live on the coast and you have fish farms nearby, how can you transition to alternative aquaculture? If you’re in an area that is experiencing increasing drought, how can you grow vegetables that do not require irrigation? And so on.

JBL: We’ve talked about the big structural changes that need to happen for a sustainable future. But do you have any advice for change that people can implement on an individual level? Because I think a lot of people are looking for ways to have a positive impact but don’t really know where to start and what to do.

CS: What we can do is to ask questions, ask yourself why is this available? Why is this not available? It’s a lot about information and talking to people and thinking. For example, if you are in a dry environment affected by drought, look at why there are not so many ingredients that respond to drought. Because the moment you start pulling the thread and tracing it, then you understand all the actors that are involved, and then you can demand change. It’s not easy to do it on an individual level. But, we have to because it’s our everyday life and we need to constantly make good choices. And there is a lot of work to be done on a wider, infrastructure level.

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#ZUKUNFT: “IS THE BED HALF FULL OR HALF EMPTY?” IN CONVERSATION WITH CHRISTOPHER HARTMANN https://www.numeroberlin.de/2025/02/zukunft-is-the-bed-half-full-or-half-empty-in-conversation-with-christopher-hartmann/ Tue, 11 Feb 2025 09:00:52 +0000 https://www.numeroberlin.de/?p=57560 “Just because a bed is empty, doesn’t mean it can’t be filled with longing.”

The creased and draped linens in Christopher Hartmann’s most recent show at Blum and Poe Gallery in Los Angeles use human imprints rather than the figures themselves to tell stories and play with the idea of opposites. The 30-year-old artist dives into domestic messes, using piles of clothes like a Rorschach test and celebrating the joy of four white socks peeking out from under a duvet. Catching up with the artist on his way back to London, Hartmann speaks on longing, belonging and growing into subtlety.

Angela Waters: Fabrics play a large role across your Nightswimming exhibition, how did your eye turn towards textiles?

Christopher Hartmann: The initial starting point was the first lockdown in 2020. My previous work was very figure-heavy, about flesh and skin. All my work is staged to a certain degree, I take photographs before I paint. During the lockdown, I wasn’t able or allowed to take images of people, that’s when I became more interested in clothes and suggesting a certain presence through the absence of figures. I was staring at a pile of clothes at home and noticed the movement of the fabrics and impression of the body.

The first room in my exhibition is just empty bed sheets, empty beds — what I am most interested in is the absence of the body, to suggest with an imprint of a body that a body was there. With the fabrics, it creates a different type or relationship between the paintings and the viewer. Through the fabrics and textiles, the viewer can interpret the motif I am portraying through their own experience.

Although you portray a lot of empty rooms, they are always very lived in, verging on messy, with unmade beds and piles of rumpled clothing. Do you identify as a messy person?

I am a controlled messy person. Not to reinforce stereotypes, but I’m a typical Capricorn, and on top of that I am German — always in control. My studio can get messy sometimes, but I have it under control. At a certain point, I have to clean. I also don’t mind mess, as long as it is my mess and I have some kind of overview of it, but if it is somebody else’s mess, I do get a bit crazy about it.

The pile of clothes I paint are very staged and composed – I spend hours on them. Some of my scenes are more natural states, but they exist in a place between staged and natural. Very often, a still life starts with me seeing something on the floor or on the couch. I then take a few pictures and start to remove or add something to make an interesting composition. I am aware that the end goal is painting.

When you do paint figures, it is most often men. Is there a reason behind it, or a particular stance you have on the subject?

As a man, it feels like the most authentic thing I can do: paint men and show things from my perspective. If you had asked me three or four years ago, I would have told you that my work is a reflection of my belief that there aren’t any fixed ideas of masculinity, but in 2023, I don’t think so much about gender norms.

There is a certain vulnerability and tenderness to the paintings, which is in contrast to a traditional sense of masculinity — but it’s not a groundbreaking new idea. For me, tenderness, vulnerability and masculinity go hand in hand. These aspects are intrinsically human, regardless of gender, sex or whatever. It is the way I am and how I relate to people in my life.

“I had just moved into a new flat in London and the starting point of that was me just staring into an empty bed. The idea of starting over was heartbreaking.”
You said that you’ve had a shift in thinking when it comes to proactively using your work to make a statement on masculinity. Do you think you’ve changed, or your environment?

Obviously, I can’t separate myself from my environment. I grew up in Bavaria, in an ultra-Catholic environment, so I am aware of the traditional view of masculinity. But maybe it is tied to leaving home. Sometimes I wonder if I am in a bubble, living in London, in the art world, thinking that people are very openminded and less fixated on certain ideas.

With this shift in thinking, how has the change manifested in your work?

Five years ago, I was pushing ideas of sexuality and masculinity. But now, my work has become a bit more supple and tender. Maybe this also has to do with age. There is something about the subtleness that I find more interesting, showing more, but being less explicit.

My most recent work in LA was about longing and belonging and exploring the idea of home. I had just moved into a new flat in London and the starting point of that was me just staring into an empty bed. The idea of starting over was heartbreaking. I was staring at the bed and thinking about where you sleep at night and where you define your home.

Now, I am much more interested in abstraction. Instead of painting a person who looks nostalgic or painting a fleshy intimate scene, I am interested in depicting atmospheres that express nostalgia or show an intimate state of mind.

Still, if abstraction helps portray emotional concepts, do you still have use for flesh and people in your paintings?

I am interested in that duality — absence points towards a presence and a presence points towards an absence. Each provokes something different in the viewer. You can very much relate to an empty bed, and it can be very confronting, but two figures are much more explicit, much more specific, and about interpretations of the poses and action. But I like telling stories across this juxtaposition.

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#ZUKUNFT: “IS QUANTUM COMPUTING CHANGING OUR FUTURE?” – IN CONVERSATION WITH CARLO ROVELLI https://www.numeroberlin.de/2025/02/zukunft-is-quantum-computing-changing-our-future-in-conversation-with-carlo-rovelli/ Mon, 03 Feb 2025 14:00:57 +0000 https://www.numeroberlin.de/?p=57204

Who better to ask about what the future holds than one of the architects of the ongoing intellectual revolution? Dubbed the ‘‘poet of physics,’’ renowned theoretical physicist Carlo Rovelli spent decades deciphering the complex laws of the unseen world. Moreover, with the help of philosophy, epistemology and a pinch of literary flair, he makes quantum theory graspable, selling millions of books around the world. His latest offering, Helgoland, retraces the journey of quantum theory from its pioneers like Schrödinger, Born, Dirac, Einstein and Heisenberg, a centenary scientific and philosophical revolution with daily applications shaping our present and future lives. Although already 100 years old, quantum theory still holds many secrets and mysteries to unfold in years to come. Quantum computing is sold to us as the new promising tech frontier. But it’s also an ongoing evolution in paradigm that affects our perception of the world. Could changing our vision of the universe be the key to a better future? A conversation with the discoverer of loop quantum gravity theory.

Marie Dapoigny: What was the most formative moment from your early years hitchhiking, one you can still relate to, to this day?

Carlo Rovelli: The sense of freedom, liberty, possibility of taking my life in my hands, and not being constrained by what everybody else thinks or expects from me, has been the best experience and the legacy those years left with me.

MD: You previously mentioned that trying psychedelics back then was what sparked your interest in physics. Can you describe that experience and how it changed your vision of reality?

CR: It did not really spark my interest in physics. Rather, it left me with a large number of unsolved and puzzling questions in my mind. If the perception of reality can be altered so easily, how do we really trust our usual perception? It left me with a sense that reality could perhaps be quite different from what our standard intuition suggests, and with a great curiosity to learn more.

MD: Can you explain how quantum mechanics change the old materialist way of thinking about the world?

CR: It makes materialism less naive. The world is not just a bunch of little stones bumping against each other. It is formed by more subtle structures, relations and interactions. This is not a step back from materialism to idealism or spiritualism. It is a step forward in understanding the physical nature of reality.

MD: It’s been about 100 years since its inception, yet quantum theory is still very counterintuitive for a lot of people. How can we improve the way we think about quantum?

CR: 100 years after Copernicus wrote his book, with the idea that the Earth spins, this idea was still unconceivable and dramatically counterintuitive for almost everybody. It takes time to digest the deep, new things we learn about reality. In addition, the specialists, the scientists themselves, are not yet in real agreement about how to best think about the new discovery. No surprise then if everybody else is confused as well. My book Helgoland is entirely on this issue.

MD: You also said in Helgoland that we should abandon the idea of a “world made up of things.” What is reality made of, once one has grasped quantum theory?

CR: The thesis developed in the relational interpretation of quantum mechanics, and which is described in Helgoland, is that we may better understand the world as a network of interacting processes rather than a collection of entities, or “things.” This means that entities can only be understood from the way they interact, and as evolving in time; entities in isolation do not make sense.

“The risk is of human stupidity, not artificial intelligence.”
MD: Some physical phenomena, including some you have observed in your books, may seem rather illogical. Does a part of adopting quantum theory mean letting go of a world that logically makes sense, that we have a grasp of?

CR: It is not logic that is challenged by quantum phenomena. It is common sense. What is challenged is the normal view of reality made by things that have their properties. A stone is a piece of rock that is somewhere, has a weight, a velocity if it moves, its own color, and so on. This intuitive view of reality is only an approximation. A stone is a very complicated phenomenon: It is a momentary coming together of configurations of quantum fields… It looks static for the same reason the Earth looks like a boring, static blue rock when seen from the moon.

MD: We live in an increasingly tech-driven, specialized world that is increasingly hard to understand. Some even fear the development of AI without control may lead to the end of humanity…

CR: I do not think that the fear that the development of AI without control may lead to the end of humanity is justified. That an AI machine launches a nuclear war is far more unlikely than a human being launching nuclear weapons (they have already done so). I have a much higher level of distrust in humans than in AI. Nobody is going to give much power to AI at present, and AI is not going to grasp power by itself. That is science fiction. Have you tried to use the chat bots? They are plainly stupid. They are better than humans in some specific tasks, but so are washing machines. The risk is of human stupidity, not artificial intelligence.

MD: What are the most exciting fields of quantum theory today?

CR: In my opinion, definitely quantum gravity. The problem of making sense of the quantum property of space itself and time itself. We have tentative theories that do this: The most developed is called loop quantum gravity, but we are not sure if they are right, because they are incomplete and we have not been able to test them.

MD: How does one go from quantum mechanics to quantum thought?

CR: I do not think that there is a specific “quantum thinking.” Rather, I think that quantum mechanics helps us to see the limits of certain notions or ideas that we take for granted. For instance, the idea that the best way to think about the world is always to think in terms of “objects,” or “things.” Often, relations come before things.

MD: Should science be more collaborative and work in tandem with philosophy?

CR: Of course. It is simple to see: The best science and the best philosophy of the past have come from people in the two disciplines that were listening to one another.

MD: How can the quantum way of thinking (relationally) be applied to other fields, like politics? Is this something that you witness in the world around you?

CR: We already think in terms of relations very often. We know that a human being, a biological species, a chemical element are determined and defined by how they interact with whatever is around.

MD: Is quantum thinking the opposite to what you described as “tribal thinking”?

CR: What I call “tribal thinking” is unfortunately a very common way of thinking today. It is the mistake that we make when we think that our best interest is for our group to prevail. We fail to see that our best interest is for our group to better and more effectively collaborate, to find common ground to find compromises, and search for the win-win solution. Sometimes, this mistake has dramatic consequences. Every war is the result of this stupidity happening on both sides.

MD: It is hard not to draw an analogy between the core principles of relational interpretation and the current status quo in our contemporary cultures, where the public debate is contaminated by “alternative facts” and relativism. How may quantum theory actually affect our notion of the truth?

CR: The public debate has always been contaminated by alternative facts. When I was younger, during the height of the Cold War, the world was split in two opposite narratives, each considering the other “alternative facts.” I had the privilege of growing up in a country where both were strong, and got a bit vaccinated against the absurdities of both. At the times of the American Revolution, the Indian Wars, or the French Revolution, it was the same, I think. For sure, nowadays it is the same: People live in their own narratives, on each side of the debates, everybody deeply convinced to have truth and justice on their side. I do not think that quantum theory has anything to do with that. Truth is complicated, never easy. We get closer to it, with time, humility, listening to our enemies, and being honest with ourselves. We are never at any final truth, but sincere debates do end up clarifying who is right and who is wrong, on many topics. So, often reasonable people end up agreeing. This is how the entire immense body of knowledge on which our civilization flourishes was slowly built, along the millennia.

MD: Could quantum thinking help us protect the environment, for example, by thinking more relationally about our place within ecosystems?

CR: To protect the environment, it suffices to be reasonable, which we are not. We do not need quantum thinking. We need not to be bamboozled by the special interests that resist implementing the changes we need. And, again, we need to invest resources in the common problems of humankind, rather than trying to prevail upon one another.

MD: Quantum computing is one of the new tech frontiers, and is sold to us as full of promises, receiving huge investment from governments around the world. What can we really expect from it in the near future? Do you see any current limitations to the technology?

CR: I think that it is an interesting possibility, but there is too much hype around it. I doubt all the promises will be kept.

MD: You said in a previous interview there was eventually a sense of “losing the revolution” for the hippie and countercultural movements of your youth. Could quantum thinking be a new graspable revolution, one of paradigm, which could make us all better human beings, i.e. more openminded and collaborative?

CR: I am afraid that is asking too much from quantum physics. We have a chance of becoming better human beings by stopping being predators as we are at the international level towards one another. Quantum physics has nothing to offer. It is up to us to be reasonable. A bit wiser than what we are.

MD: What are you most scared of for the upcoming years to come?

CR: The coming war between the US and China. Seems that the US is desperately trying to go into it.

MD: And what are you looking forward to the most?

CR: The moment in which the people in power will realize that their task is not to make one country or one system prevail. It is to build a peaceful and collaborative world, and address the common problems of humankind: the ecological crises, extreme poverty, the dramatic economical inequalities, diseases…

MD: I sense a change in conversations around us, where people increasingly now prefer to think more along a “spectrum” of realities rather than using binary thinking. Do you think this evolution may signal a step in the right direction?

CR: I appreciate your optimism. Maybe because I am older, I see people demonizing our countries, spending much more on the military, preparing for war. Forgetting the good “no more war” ideal of the past. I hope to be wrong and that you are right.

MD: You previously said in an interview: “If I ruled the world, I would preach indiscipline.” Is there any irreverence and freedom in quantum thinking?

CR: There certainly was when quantum theory was conceived. It was conceived by a group of very young people, in their twenties, full of courage, irreverence and freedom. Now, quantum theory is an old lady, it is 98 years old.

MD: As students, we often study physics focusing on menial details instead of offering perspective, i.e. the cultural paradigms that shape our understanding of the world. Should we teach epistemology in school?

CR: Yes, definitely. We should teach the history of science. To see how painfully we came to know the little we know. We should also teach history from the perspectives of others. It is astonishing how each country teaches its students a version of history totally different from the other countries. So, everybody ends up believing they are in the only reasonable place on the planet. And we do not understand each other anymore. And we kill one another, as we are doing routinely.

MD: This is maybe off-piste, but something that creeps up regularly in creative circles: Do you feel like LSD – amongst other psychedelics – entices humans to see the world in a more quantum manner?

CR: It certainly may give us a sense that the world may well be stranger than we thought. And quantum theory for sure tells us that the world is indeed stranger than we thought.

MD: Is the future quantum?

CR: Nature is quantum. This is a fact. Like the fact that the Earth is spinning. It will be quantum in the future, it is quantum now, and it was quantum in the past. We have just learned this, and it is in this sense that we have entered a quantum world.

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IN CONVERSATION WITH FATIMA NJAI & JEROME SYDENHAM https://www.numeroberlin.de/2025/01/interview-with-fatima-njai-and-jerome-sydenham/ Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:52:35 +0000 https://www.numeroberlin.de/?p=56809 “I do believe that I have a good understanding of most genres of music”

DJ and producer Jerome Sydenham is one of the most compelling figures in the world of electronic music. With a career spanning house, techno, and everything in between, Sydenham has not only shaped club culture worldwide but has also made history – most notably through the founding of his label, Ibadan Records, which has continuously pushed boundaries.
Last summer, Jerome honored us by performing at the opening party of Antje Peters´ Arbeitsräume at Schlachter151. Now, we had the privilege of speaking with him again to learn more about his musical journey and artistic background. Also, Berlin-based Producer, Songwriter, and Artist Fatima Njai, who worked together with Jerome Sydenham, shares her thoughts.

Vivien Schleich: What are you currently working on and what is particularly important to you in life at the moment?

Fatima (F): I am working on a Fatima Njai album. This picture entails music production, songwriting, and art, to be specific (with great collaborations). In addition, cultural event production falls into my creative repertoire and I work on several cultural projects that are related to art, fashion, and music.

Jerome Sydenham (JS): I am always working on music. The flavors range from afro vibes to the complete house spectrum and deep techno. I am also very focused on my afromatic art, fashion, and music project that will be based in Berlin, Paris, and Tokyo. These projects are my current priority at the moment and I will use Berlin as my base of operations.

What key moments have shaped your life and your music?

F: Many moments in life shaped me. One key moment is my friend Julie Snoek, who motivated me at 18 to pursue singing and organized a spot as a singer for me in a cover band. That set the milestone to enter my personal and professional journey into the music business. Later, at 24, my friend Phillip Majer introduced me to electronic music production. I went on to complete my studies in Fine Arts at Christina Kubisch with a diploma in Sound Art and Mixed Media. Collaborative works and my love for street music gave me invaluable lessons in my personal and spiritual evolution. All of this led to a major key moment (where things became full circle) when I started to work with Jerome Sydenham. He became my biggest teacher and mentor in music production, business, and art. Keeping it real, the story continues.

JS: My early childhood in Nigeria was critical in my development regarding appreciation of music. My professional background at East West Records and Atlantic Records in New York City gave birth to my DJ and production career which led to the formation of Ibadan Records and other imprints. The journey continues…

Which artists or genres originally inspired you to make music? Have these influences changed over time?

F: I am a lover of all genres. I love music.

JS: Primarily Fela Kuti and the Akpala music scene. I was blessed to be involved with the foundation years of house and techno music, also naturally hip hop and reggae Music. I do believe that I have a good understanding of most genres of music.

The future is bright as always. – Fatima
You’ve been in the music scene for quite a long time. What has changed in particular during this time?

F: The cultural impact and identity of music. The consumption of music. Music was better when artists did not have to obey any imagery and were reflective of the issues of the world.

JS: Music always evolves. I guess the improvement of the home studio is the most significant difference and of course the use of AI in music production.

How do you feel about the current popularity of techno and house? And how do you see the future of these genres?

F: The future is bright as always. I see more real instruments coming back, songs and innovative sounds. I love the fact how accessible all music became to people. I am wondering about the future of streaming and if it actually has value in the long run. I see a lot of classics come back, a lot of new fusions of old and new. I believe the only way to keep music sustainable is to carry all the greatness of music from the past into the future and share it with the world until it is forgotten.

JS: As I said before, there is always movement in these genres and there is a lot more of it. I think you really have to dig to find the good stuff. Same thing applies to DJing. I find there are less dynamic DJs existing in the market. This always changes so I remain optimistic.

Who has been your favorite people to work with in your career and why?

F: Jerome Sydenham from all people, 100%, because he is the most talented, genius producer in my opinion. He is also a great teacher, mentor, and at the same time, he is extremely creative in several fields of arts and production of music. I call him a “Walking Library”. Also, he has a great understanding of the ideas I have and always gives more fruit for thought or the one idea that will take the music to the next level. His hunger for music is just infectious. He is the producer who put sense into my ideas and helped me to shape it into real music. His openness to music of all kinds and almost childlike approach to combine sounds and new ideas is in itself always inspiring to me. Without Jerome Sydenham, the world would not hear and know about Fatima Njai, as he is the one who flipped the script in my career and is the biggest Fatima Njai supporter.

JS: Merlin Bobb and Sylvia Rhone on a corporate level, Fatima Njai, Joe Clausell, Kerri Chandler, Dennis Ferrer, and Ron Trent on a production level, to name a few. Robert Owens, Carl Craig, The Martinez Brothers, Seth Troxler, Function…and I could go on and on and on. So many great people.

When you look back on your career: are there any decisions you would make differently today?

F: No. The music always shows me the way.

JS: Nope, not really, except maybe for better lawyers and accountants.

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OOR STORE X GASM, OR? – the ravewear label you need to know right now https://www.numeroberlin.de/2025/01/oor-store-x-gasm-or-the-ravewear-label-you-need-to-know-right-now/ Fri, 10 Jan 2025 16:26:13 +0000 https://www.numeroberlin.de/?p=56172 Take the vibe of a techno club at 4 am, a touch of 90s nostalgia and humor, paired with a strong commitment to sustainability and quality, mix them up, and you will get – GASM, OR? 

GASM, OR? designs ravewear for those in search of originality – in the club, at the afters, and everything in between. The result is designs that not only celebrate the first generations of global techno and house devotees but also capture the spirit of the here and now. They are comfortable and practical but also carry a touch of humor and playfulness. And last but not least they challenge conventional norms while they make sustainability, animal welfare, and quality a priority. Through limited editions, GASM, OR? wants to avoid overproduction and -consumption; but also keeps an element of surprise and anticipation. The styles are relaxed and easy to wear, suitable for day and night, office and club.

Numéro Berlin spoke with one of the brand’s three founders, Damiano von Erckert, about nostalgia, individuality and his vision for the brand.

Ann-Kathrin Riedl: Please tell us about your journey and how it ultimately led to the founding of GASM, OR?

Damiano von Erckert: I have my roots in nightlife and have been a DJ traveling worldwide for 15 years. For the past 4 or 5 years, I’ve been a resident at Robert Johnson in Frankfurt. Through my graphic design work for the club’s merchandise, the idea of creating my own label came to my mind. I was introduced to Tillmann Lauterbach through Sven Väth, a mutual friend. Tillmann had already worked as a designer for major brands and his own fashion label. I felt he was the person I had been searching for over the last 20 years to take this step. Together with Peter, the third founder, who used to run his own clubs, it’s a unique dynamic of three different generations. It taught me to trust the universe – that everything aligns and comes together at the right time. 

Where does your inspiration come from, and what vision do you have in mind?

We enjoy playing with humor, embrace color and prints and take inspiration from the warehouse raves of the 90s, spontaneous raves in UK fields, and the parties of the early 2000s in Berlin and Frankfurt. Back then, there was a lot of craziness and kitsch. We want to step away from the darkness often associated with techno and, mistakenly, house music today. The Berghain dresscode of an entirely black outfit is amazing and we like it, but it’s not the only way to go. If you look at photo books about the old Ostgut, which later turned into Berghain, you’ll see that hardly anyone back then was dressed in black. After all, counterculture is about being challenged and inspired. Breaking away from monotony every now and then is essential – not only in nightlife. I once read a book called “The Disambiguation of the World“ about the phenomenon of pseudo-diversity. For example, in a supermarket, you might see dozens of chip bags in front of you. But it’s just an illusion of variety, at the end of the day, they are all just chips. The same thing happens with fashion and art when they are influenced by cancel culture or algorithms too much. Everything becomes flat. Why? Because brands and artists want to play it safe.

Is that one of the reasons why the 90s have such a strong appeal to you? Because the vibe back then was different?

In the 90s, there was a much stronger spirit of revolution and optimism. People were curious about the future, and there was a great sense of community. Going out was about escaping everyday life for at least a few hours. That still happens today, but smartphones have changed a lot. Even in the club, they’re present and bring the everyday world with them. People are filming all the time, which often looks great on social media, but in reality, it takes away part of the magic.

Is GASM, OR? an attempt to bring back that magic?

Definitely! Rethinking consumerism also plays a role in our concept. Back in the days, people would go into stores and there would be these pyramids built from the newest products, creating desire. We want to bring that magic back, for example with the special packing of our products. When you connect the experience of shopping with all of your senses and positive emotions, a piece of clothing becomes more than just that – it’s like a friend in your wardrobe. That’s why we see ourselves more as an art object that also makes fashion.

Which piece of from the previous releases best captures the essence and spirit of GASM, OR? in your opinion?
Our soon-to-be-released bomber jacket, because it is made with so much care. The materials are high-quality and recycled, and the leather only comes from animals that lived freely and were hunted regularly. And the “I believe in miracles” tank top, because that is definitely a core belief of GASM, OR?

Visit our OOR Store on Torstraße 76 in Berlin to experience GASM, OR? in real life. In addition to our own OOR Apparel, the store also offers an exciting collection of other brands. 

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IN CONVERSATION WITH DAVID ROELEN ABOUT RETHINKING THE CONCEPT OF FRAGRANCE https://www.numeroberlin.de/2025/01/interview-with-david-roelen-roelen-perfumes/ Mon, 06 Jan 2025 16:33:28 +0000 https://www.numeroberlin.de/?p=56356 “For me, the perfume doesn’t happen in the bottle. The perfume happens when the person wears it.” – David Roelen

Perfume brand owner David Roelen brings a fresh and uniquely personal perspective to the concept of fragrance. In an interview with Numéro Berlin, he shares his thoughts on the power of scent, his unconventional approach, and whether perfumes make good gifts. Gift or not – Roelen perfumes are now available at the OOR Store, located at Torstraße 76, where all six creations can be tested on-site.

Antonia Mittmann: Hello, David. Is there a scent from your childhood or youth that you still remember?

David Roelen: My uncle’s piece of hash comes to mind. He was a hippie artist who lived in a commune and loved to smoke. Hash rocks were always lying around, and I could smell them as I walked by. I loved the mix of herbal, woody, and animalistic notes. It had such an aromatic quality, especially to me as a child.

You aim to not only create variational fragrances but also to redefine masculinity. Roelen is more than just a perfume brand. What else does it represent?

It’s a value system. It’s not only about masculinity but about dissolving the borders between genders. I think of personality rather than gender when it comes to perfume. I’ve always envisioned a world where people interact free of fear and with respect. Perfume is one way to express this.

Also, your flacon designs seem to match your values.

The design was shaped by necessity. When I started, I needed bottles that stood out and could be filled by hand. I also wanted something neutral. The flacon protects the liquid from sunlight and serves a clear function. For me, perfume doesn’t happen in a bottle, it happens when a person wears it.

Can you describe the typical wearers of your fragrances?

People who share our values: they’re reflective, aware, respectful, and confident.

Can you give us a brief insight into your approach to dealing with “top,” “heart,” and “base” notes of your fragrances – what makes it special?

I’m not a “pro”, like, I didn’t formally study perfumery. I create olfactive concepts and work with master perfumers on their actualization.

But in this case, it’s pretty easy: Top notes diffuse quickly; they’re very present initially but fade soon after. The middle notes, where the top and base converge, build the perfume’s character. The base lasts until the end.

Imagine testing several commercial perfumes at a Duty Free Store—they all smell nice initially, but later, they often fade into sameness. These perfumes prioritize top notes to create an instant appeal, a strategy known as “Sniff n Buy” in the industry.

My approach for Roelen Perfumes, however, values top, heart, and base notes equally to create strong “personalities” and lasting impressions. For me, fragrance is an identity that unfolds over time—like truly getting to know someone.

What does your collaboration with the fragrance lab look like, and how long does the creative process take from the initial idea to the final product?

I start with a name and concept, then explore base ingredients to see what resonates. I also create a briefing for my Perfumer (also called “Nose”) which can contain text, images, music, and video clips to convey what I want people to feel when they smell my perfumes. The Nose then creates variants, which I direct and we refine them iteratively until the scent feels right. This can take from weeks up to 9 months, per scent.

From a mood board to one final product…

… to a feeling.

I found my first perfume at the men’s department, so your fragrance “Daddy” caught my attention: it’s an homage to women who wear men’s perfumes. How did the composition of the fragrance notes come about, and what inspired you?

This concept hit me during research, discovering that 30% of all women buy men’s fragrances—a striking statistic, a third of all female customers! What?! Why does the industry cling to outdated ideas, perpetuating the notion of women as the “cute accessory” to successful men? This concept demanded transformation, and it had to become a fragrance. Associating certain ingredients with gender feels arbitrary—likely a marketing construct that, over time, became learned behavior: we associate specific scents with masculinity or femininity because of how our parents or grandparents smelled who were also brainwashed by the marketing teams.

The aim was to reinterpret everything typically considered masculine—shaving foam, lavender, herbal notes like sage or chamomile, tobacco, leather jackets, or car seats—by blending it with a gentler, modern perspective. The campaign debuted with a striking bottle and the headline: “She’s a Daddy.”

To clarify, it’s not about sugar daddies. These ingredients were historically taken from women; now, the status is reclaimed from men. Also, the bottle itself could symbolize “Daddy.” It leaves space for interpretation; it’s food for thought. And in a way, maybe a provocation and a gentle middle finger.

Are you team “one signature scent” or “a small collection for different moods”?

The second. Sometimes I’m even team “several fragrances in one day”.

“My scents are for people open to discovering new versions of themselves.” – David Roelen
How can someone find the perfect scent?

Very often, we make decisions based on fear and “What will people think about me when I wear this?”. Instead of asking “Do I like this?”

Leaving self-doubt behind is really helpful. Being open to surprise yourself. Same for the idea of “That’s not me!” – well, maybe, it’s not who you were, but maybe, it is who you will be from tomorrow on.

That sounds like a form of self-discovery.

That brings us back to the people that wear my scents. I think that’s exactly the process they are going through. They understand that we evolve and develop, and that change is something positive.

You know when people say “You have changed!” with this certain tone of voice? My usual response to that  is „Thanks!”.

What happens to those who found their matching scent?

I can only guess but I’d say they feel whole and confident when wearing it. 

For me, perfume is like a message. It is something that people can’t see but notice. “Invisible, yet there” so to say and it tells them a lot about you. When it’s right it matches your algorithm. It’s a part of you like a piece of clothing, a handbag, a hair color, everything, and when you can identify with it, you feel even more confident and because of that people will resonate with you.

Perfume commercials are often epic, sexy, and absolutely high-gloss. Your new campaign, however, is very close to real people, unpolished, and initially places the fragrance in the background. What message do you want to convey with this campaign?

The message lies in what people (in the campaign) tell each other: “I love the way you smell.” This campaign highlights genuine connections, featuring real friends and customers of the brand in 11 short video clips. It’s about rethinking gender and emphasizing personality. In one of the clips, one friend described another as “an infinite source of light,” which moved them to tears. I never imagined that this would happen, it was very powerful. 

Moments like these matter more to me than market success. The goal is for my perfumes to truly touch people.

Do you think it’s impossible to gift a fragrance that the other person really loves?

Perfumes can be difficult gifts. 

Rebuying a perfume that somebody already uses? Cool. Also, if you don’t care and you just want to tell somebody “Hey, when I smell this, I think of you. Maybe you like it – here’s a gift”. But giving a new scent as a couple can put a lot of pressure on each person. And it can also go terribly wrong. 

For that, we have discovery sets which include all six perfumes in the line. That’s a nice way to let people discover perfumes playfully. Approach gifting with a bit more space to explore.

Which Roelen fragrance, in your opinion, best captures the spirit of Berlin?

Chrystal Haze. It’s conceptual, futuristic, and curious—like Berlin, a melting pot where people come to find themselves.

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